JOIN Command not working as expected

[ubiquity]

Hi again,

Earlier today I was attempting to use the Join Polyline from the ribbon interface in BabaCAD 2017.
I am running it on a 64 bit Windows 10 Home machine with integrated Intel graphics.
I found that I was neither able to join two polylines nor a polyline and an arc or spline.
After the first few attempts BabaCAD stopped working, so I first simply re-opened BabaCAD and tried again with the same failed results and a crash.
Following this I shut down my machine and did a reboot too before trying again.
On the next attempt I was unable still to produce joined objects but no further crash took place.
I deleted all objects and began again with my screen recording software running to see if I could reproduce the filed results.
The video file Baba1.mp4 in the following shared folder shows these attempts:
[url=https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/0B5zt_afTNFMpZDd2aWg1VmRLYWs?usp=sharing

The results are similar to those obtained in previous attempts. When clicking on the Join button on the ribbon after constructing a polyline and an arc the Command Line requests selection of a polyline. If I select the arc first it gives me an error. If I 'select' the polyline first it does not appear selected but the command line asks for selection of another polyline or arc (indicating that the polyline was selected). After then selecting the arc (which is visibly selected) and pressing SPACE or ENTER the result seems to vary randomly between doing nothing, deleting the polyline and replacing the arc with the polyline segments.
I haven't tried a range of segment sizes for the polyline or arc but it does seem to me to be performing erratically, and certainly not as I expected.

Whether anyone else has a similar experience, or can reproduce the issue I don't know.
Hopefully you can give me an explanation or reproduce it yourself.

Regards,
Paul

[babadmin]

Hi Paul,

Thanks for giving a detailed explanation of such behavior, which I've already found, and it will be fixed for Update 1 of BabaCAD 2017. Current version of JOIN command works only for straight (linear) segments of lines and polylines. Arcs and bulged polylines will work for JOIN command in the next app update.

One important notice for you: I saw on your video that you are trying to join segments that are not close one to another. That's why you don't get joined polyline. Everything else that you are doing are correct. First you have to select polyline and then other segmenst to join, but those segments must be close (with some minimum tolerance of maybe 0.1 units).

Kind regards,
Mirza

[ubiquity]

Thanks Mirza,
I have a few extra comments which may be helpful, or a nuisance.
1) When I first choose the Join Polyline button, the command line asks me to:
> PLINEJOIN
Select polyline
In my previous comments I suggested that after this command appears and I then click on one of the polylines it becomes selected, even though it does not change to dotted line.
This is not correct - I now notice that when I click on a polyline to select it the properties box shows "Nothing Selected". However the command line assumes that a selection has been made and displays the next command:
Specify other lines/polylines/arcs to join
Thus, although it appears in the command line that the first polyline has been selected and a second or subsequent polyline should now be selected, in fact clicking on a polyline at this point makes the first selection. In other words the command line and selection actions are now out of step.
Once you realise this it is easy but not intuitive to select a subsequent polyline. On the other hand if you don't notice this misstep and assume you have selected both then press enter it is disconcerting to find that one polyline may sometimes disappear never to return.

2) It certainly makes sense to have the objects close to one another to join them in fact I am now finding that it is virtually necessary for 2 polylines to be touching at existing vertices to create a reliable join. I have observed the disappearing polyline phenomenon even when one end of an open polyline (like the W shapes I was creating yesterday) is actually in contact with a non-vertex point of a closed shape like a rectangle (joining these often results in the disappearance of the W shape).

3) I realise that you have said there is a need to fix the joining of straight line segmented polylines and arcs (presumably including ellipses and circles. So this is anecdotal but I found it to be of interest. I tried joining a straight line segmented polyline to a circle. Regardless of the size of the polyline and circle, and their positions, joining them consistently results in them both disappearing and being replaced with a single straight line from the origin to the centre of the circle. This is similar to the phenomenon I observed yesterday where joining a polyline and an arc resulted in the polyline replacing the arc between its two end points.
I guess its related to the algorithm in place to join dissimilar vector paths.

I hope that may have been useful but I will abandon experiments with polyline until your next release.

On an unrelated note. You probably noticed I had changed my background from black to white. I have just noticed that regardless of whether the GRID button is on or off there is no grid for the white background. I choose the white background as it is better for my eyes since I have poor contrast sensitivity (comes partly with old age - I will be 67 soon).

Finally, as BabaCAD is graphical software , it would be useful to me at least, and possibly others, if the ability to attach files to forum posts was turned on for members. Then we could attach screenshots, or even short videos, to support our comments. While I can continue to use linked documents from my Google drive others may not have that capacity

Kind regards,
Paul

[babadmin]

Thanks for the comments.

Regarding JOIN command, I think you misunderstood how it works. You cannot join polyline with other lines/polylines by connecting them in non-ending points or even worse in no vertex points. I think that JOIN command works in same way in other professional CAD software like AutoCAD. So, you have to have polylines and lines connected in sequential order, so they all visually forms one poyline object. One of the objects must be polyline and it must not be first in the order (it can be im the middle for example), and first selected object must be polyline.

Grid is also visible in case of white background (I saw that on your screenshot for terminology question, .png image) but I must admit that intensity of grid lines are lower compared with case of black background. I will increase visibility of grid lines for black background or maybe I will put system variable where user can change contrast value.

[ubiquity]

I am sorry Mirka, my feedback was rather clumsy and I will wait for the changes before providing further feedback on the polyline issues.

It would certainly be good from my point of view if you could find a way to increase the contrast particularly on the white background, or to allow users to vary the contrast to suit their eyesight.
The grid is barely visible for me on the white background from where I sit with my 19.5 inch monitor at arms length even with my prescription spectacles. If I lean forward closer to the monitor then I can see it a little more clearly.

I do certainly appreciate your efforts in developing this software and will continue to explore it from a beginners perspective, which I hope may be helpful.
My background is in end user training and documentation, mainly for desktop software and in particular development of database and spreadsheet applications (Access, Excel, Open Office Base and Calc, VBA etc.) so where I am able I will provide some feedback from that perspective too.